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class="block-body js-replyNewMessageContainer"> <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="Tidal" data-content="post-9611609" id="js-post-9611609" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/9611609/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-9611609"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/tidal.540420/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/tidal.540420/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/forums/members/tidal.540420/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="540420" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img 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lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9611609" data-lb-caption-desc="Tidal · May 7, 2023 at 3:22 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><div style="text-align: center"><img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/chien-pao.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/chien-pao:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/haxorus.gif.m.1733184910' alt=':sv/haxorus:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/iron-valiant.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/iron-valiant:' /><br /><span style="font-size: 26px"><b>Chien-Pao, Haxorus, and Iron Valiant have been BANNED from The Card Game!</b></span><div style="text-align: center"><br /><div class="bbTable"><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td></td><td><a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/604741/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="604741" data-username="kennukem">kennukem</a></td><td><a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/554210/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="554210" data-username="KaenSoul">KaenSoul</a></td><td><a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/540420/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="540420" data-username="AlexSaysBruh123">AlexSaysBruh123</a></td><td><a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/533358/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="533358" data-username="PQRDG">PQRDG</a></td><td><b>Verdict</b></td></tr><tr><td><b>Chien-Pao</b></td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BANNED</td></tr><tr><td><b>Dudunsparce</b></td><td>BAN</td><td>DNB</td><td>BAN</td><td>DNB</td><td>NO ACTION</td></tr><tr><td><b>Garchomp</b></td><td>DNB</td><td>DNB</td><td>DNB</td><td>BAN</td><td>NO ACTION</td></tr><tr><td><b>Haxorus</b></td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BANNED</td></tr><tr><td><b>Iron Valiant</b></td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BANNED</td></tr><tr><td><b>Ting-Lu</b></td><td>ABSTAIN</td><td>DNB</td><td>DNB</td><td>BAN</td><td>NO ACTION</td></tr></table></div></div><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/chien-pao.png.m.1733184959' alt=':chien-pao:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> sports a strong Water/Dark stab combination, a fantastic speed tier, and a very solid attack stat boosted even further by it's ability Sword of Ruin. Crucially, Sacred Sword allows for a strong option against opposing Dark and Steel types, while Psychic Fangs is a powerful coverage option to hit the prevalent Fighting types that threaten you. Chien-Pao is forced to run Heavy-Duty Boots on most teams, but still sports an excellent offensive pressure and natural synergy with key offensive Pokemon that allows it to easily make its way onto the field and force in it's few checks-- which are easy to wear down due to having to check other strong physical threats. Chien-Pao also finds it's way onto snow and rain teams, benefiting massively from both. Snow gives it a much easier time switching in, while Rain gives it's STAB water moves a 50% power boost on top of the potential to Swords Dance In the end, we've decided to BAN Chien-Pao.<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/haxorus.png.m.1733184959' alt=':haxorus:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> has a sky-high attack stat of 147, the powerful Dragon type with STAB Outrage, great coverage and a good speed tier in 97. Due to the Dragon type's naturally great defensive profile, and Haxorus' relatively good bulk for such a strong threat, it had no shortage of entry points into battle. Sporting several strong, viable sets such as Choice Band/Scarf, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance and 4 Attacks Life Orb, Haxorus had few reliable checks and even fewer that could reliably answer more than one set. Similar to Chien-Pao, Haxorus was able to force in the opponent's physical check and use this to pivot into a different offensive threat, gaining crucial momentum. Haxorus proved too powerful and versatile a threat, and has been BANNED.<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/iron-valiant.png.m.1733184959' alt=':iron-valiant:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> sports incredible mixed offenses, a very good speed tier, and a fantastically deep movepool absolutely full of coverage and powerful STAB moves alike. Psychic/Fighting is very solid offensive coverage, and Valiant packs options like the dark-type Poison Jab and Knock Off to threaten the Psychic types that naturally switch into it. Valiant has great versatility as well, with set-up options like Swords Dance and Calm Mind being just as viable as Choice Items or the powerful Booster Energy. Iron Valiant can act as a wallbreaker, sweeper, cleaner or powerful progress maker, and has been BANNED for it's combination of versatility, speed, strength and unpredictability.​</div><br /><span style="font-size: 12px"> edit: tagging <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/241023/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="241023" data-username="Kris">Kris</a> to implement once Showdown is back up</span></div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="9" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul class="reactionSummary"> <li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--1" data-reaction-id="1"><i aria-hidden="true"></i><img 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xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9611852" rel="nofollow"> #52 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9611852" data-lb-caption-desc="Talpr0ne · May 7, 2023 at 6:44 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 540420" data-quote="AlexSaysBruh123" data-source="post: 9611609" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=9611609" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-9611609">AlexSaysBruh123 said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> <div style="text-align: center"><img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/chien-pao.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/chien-pao:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/haxorus.gif.m.1733184910' alt=':sv/haxorus:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/iron-valiant.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/iron-valiant:' /><br /><span style="font-size: 26px"><b>Chien-Pao, Haxorus, and Iron Valiant have been BANNED from The Card Game!</b></span><br /><br />​</div><div class="bbTable"><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td></td><td><a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/604741/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="604741" data-username="kennukem">kennukem</a></td><td><a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/554210/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="554210" data-username="KaenSoul">KaenSoul</a></td><td><a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/540420/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="540420" data-username="AlexSaysBruh123">AlexSaysBruh123</a></td><td><a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/533358/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="533358" data-username="PQRDG">PQRDG</a></td><td><b>Verdict</b></td></tr><tr><td><b>Chien-Pao</b></td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BANNED</td></tr><tr><td><b>Dudunsparce</b></td><td>BAN</td><td>DNB</td><td>BAN</td><td>DNB</td><td>NO ACTION</td></tr><tr><td><b>Garchomp</b></td><td>DNB</td><td>DNB</td><td>DNB</td><td>BAN</td><td>NO ACTION</td></tr><tr><td><b>Haxorus</b></td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BANNED</td></tr><tr><td><b>Iron Valiant</b></td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BANNED</td></tr><tr><td><b>Ting-Lu</b></td><td>ABSTAIN</td><td>DNB</td><td>DNB</td><td>BAN</td><td>NO ACTION</td></tr></table></div><br /><br /><div style="text-align: center"><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/chien-pao.png.m.1733184959' alt=':chien-pao:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> sports a strong Water/Dark stab combination, a fantastic speed tier, and a very solid attack stat boosted even further by it's ability Sword of Ruin. Crucially, Sacred Sword allows for a strong option against opposing Dark and Steel types, while Psychic Fangs is a powerful coverage option to hit the prevalent Fighting types that threaten you. Chien-Pao is forced to run Heavy-Duty Boots on most teams, but still sports an excellent offensive pressure and natural synergy with key offensive Pokemon that allows it to easily make its way onto the field and force in it's few checks-- which are easy to wear down due to having to check other strong physical threats. Chien-Pao also finds it's way onto snow and rain teams, benefiting massively from both. Snow gives it a much easier time switching in, while Rain gives it's STAB water moves a 50% power boost on top of the potential to Swords Dance In the end, we've decided to BAN Chien-Pao.<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/haxorus.png.m.1733184959' alt=':haxorus:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> has a sky-high attack stat of 147, the powerful Dragon type with STAB Outrage, great coverage and a good speed tier in 97. Due to the Dragon type's naturally great defensive profile, and Haxorus' relatively good bulk for such a strong threat, it had no shortage of entry points into battle. Sporting several strong, viable sets such as Choice Band/Scarf, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance and 4 Attacks Life Orb, Haxorus had few reliable checks and even fewer that could reliably answer more than one set. Similar to Chien-Pao, Haxorus was able to force in the opponent's physical check and use this to pivot into a different offensive threat, gaining crucial momentum. Haxorus proved too powerful and versatile a threat, and has been BANNED.<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/iron-valiant.png.m.1733184959' alt=':iron-valiant:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> sports incredible mixed offenses, a very good speed tier, and a fantastically deep movepool absolutely full of coverage and powerful STAB moves alike. Psychic/Fighting is very solid offensive coverage, and Valiant packs options like the dark-type Poison Jab and Knock Off to threaten the Psychic types that naturally switch into it. Valiant has great versatility as well, with set-up options like Swords Dance and Calm Mind being just as viable as Choice Items or the powerful Booster Energy. Iron Valiant can act as a wallbreaker, sweeper, cleaner or powerful progress maker, and has been BANNED for it's combination of versatility, speed, strength and unpredictability.​</div><br /><span style="font-size: 12px"> edit: tagging <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/241023/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="241023" data-username="Kris">Kris</a> to implement once Showdown is back up</span> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div></blockquote>With the Haxorus ban, Garchomp is the only dragon above UU left, and the only physical dragon left aside from... Flapple, which is way scarier than it has any right to be if you ask me. Maybe ban Shed Tail so we can have a bit more Dragon type variety?<br /><br />Why was Ting-Lu even voted on to begin with, let alone not getting a unanimous no-ban? It isn't even in the top 3 best mons with its type combination, or in the top 5 among either bulky Fightings or bulky Darks! Jokes aside, it can't boost, it's weak to Stealth Punches mandating boots, it has no recovery, it's really susceptible to Normal types using it as setup fodder, and the competition it faces as I said is very stiff. Really, really surprised to see it considered for a ban before Flutter Mane.</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="7" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul class="reactionSummary"> <li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--1" data-reaction-id="1"><i aria-hidden="true"></i><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" loading="lazy" class="reaction-sprite js-reaction" alt="Like" title="Like" /></span></li> </ul> <span class="u-srOnly">Reactions:</span><a class="reactionsBar-link" href="/forums/posts/9611852/reactions" data-xf-click="overlay" data-cache="false" rel="nofollow"><bdi>DosDogs</bdi>, <bdi>Pineapple1001</bdi>, <bdi>shadowpea</bdi> and 4 others</a> </div> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> </div> </article> <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="Tidal" data-content="post-9611909" id="js-post-9611909" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/9611909/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-9611909"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/tidal.540420/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/tidal.540420/" /> <div 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href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9611909" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9611909/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9611909"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9611909" rel="nofollow"> #53 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9611909" data-lb-caption-desc="Tidal · May 7, 2023 at 7:24 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 195334" data-quote="Talpr0ne" data-source="post: 9611852" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=9611852" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-9611852">Talpr0ne said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Maybe ban Shed Tail so we can have a bit more Dragon type variety? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div></blockquote><br />Cyclizar <i>was</i> considered for an unban, but Orthworm hasn't proven problematic and, more importantly, Cyclizar would likely be a problem in it's own right, even if it's not as powerful as the other Normal/Dragons. At least for the time being, we think the meta is going to be fine as-is with our heavily reduced Dragon count.</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="6" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul class="reactionSummary"> <li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--1" data-reaction-id="1"><i aria-hidden="true"></i><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" loading="lazy" class="reaction-sprite js-reaction" alt="Like" title="Like" /></span></li> </ul> <span class="u-srOnly">Reactions:</span><a class="reactionsBar-link" href="/forums/posts/9611909/reactions" data-xf-click="overlay" data-cache="false" rel="nofollow"><bdi>DosDogs</bdi>, <bdi>Pineapple1001</bdi>, <bdi>shadowpea</bdi> and 3 others</a> </div> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> </div> </article> <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="DosDogs" data-content="post-9612141" id="js-post-9612141" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/9612141/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-9612141"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/dosdogs.629310/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/dosdogs.629310/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/forums/members/dosdogs.629310/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="629310" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img src="/forums/data/avatars/m/629/629310.jpg?1678290180" srcset="/forums/data/avatars/l/629/629310.jpg?1678290180 2x" alt="DosDogs" class="avatar-u629310-m" width="96" height="96" loading="lazy" itemprop="image" /> </a> </div> </div> <div class="message-userDetails"> <h4 class="message-name"><a href="/forums/members/dosdogs.629310/" class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="629310" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span itemprop="name">DosDogs</span></a></h4> <h5 class="userTitle message-userTitle" dir="auto" itemprop="jobTitle">I like Cross Evolution</h5> <div class="message-userBadges"> <div class="marquee-holder"> <div class="marquee-content"><img src="/forums/media/badges/ladybug.png.m.1" alt="is a Pre-Contributor" title="is a 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rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9612141"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9612141" rel="nofollow"> #54 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9612141" data-lb-caption-desc="DosDogs · May 7, 2023 at 10:12 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 540420" data-quote="AlexSaysBruh123" data-source="post: 9611609" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=9611609" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-9611609">AlexSaysBruh123 said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/chien-pao.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/chien-pao:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/haxorus.gif.m.1733184910' alt=':sv/haxorus:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/iron-valiant.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/iron-valiant:' /><br /><br /><b>Chien-Pao, Haxorus, and Iron Valiant have been BANNED from The Card Game!</b><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><div class="bbTable"><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td></td><td><a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/604741/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="604741" data-username="kennukem">kennukem</a></td><td><a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/554210/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="554210" data-username="KaenSoul">KaenSoul</a></td><td><a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/540420/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="540420" data-username="AlexSaysBruh123">AlexSaysBruh123</a></td><td><a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/533358/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="533358" data-username="PQRDG">PQRDG</a></td><td><b>Verdict</b></td></tr><tr><td><b>Chien-Pao</b></td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BANNED</td></tr><tr><td><b>Dudunsparce</b></td><td>BAN</td><td>DNB</td><td>BAN</td><td>DNB</td><td>NO ACTION</td></tr><tr><td><b>Garchomp</b></td><td>DNB</td><td>DNB</td><td>DNB</td><td>BAN</td><td>NO ACTION</td></tr><tr><td><b>Haxorus</b></td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BANNED</td></tr><tr><td><b>Iron Valiant</b></td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BAN</td><td>BANNED</td></tr><tr><td><b>Ting-Lu</b></td><td>ABSTAIN</td><td>DNB</td><td>DNB</td><td>BAN</td><td>NO ACTION</td></tr></table></div><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/chien-pao.png.m.1733184959' alt=':chien-pao:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> sports a strong Water/Dark stab combination, a fantastic speed tier, and a very solid attack stat boosted even further by it's ability Sword of Ruin. Crucially, Sacred Sword allows for a strong option against opposing Dark and Steel types, while Psychic Fangs is a powerful coverage option to hit the prevalent Fighting types that threaten you. Chien-Pao is forced to run Heavy-Duty Boots on most teams, but still sports an excellent offensive pressure and natural synergy with key offensive Pokemon that allows it to easily make its way onto the field and force in it's few checks-- which are easy to wear down due to having to check other strong physical threats. Chien-Pao also finds it's way onto snow and rain teams, benefiting massively from both. Snow gives it a much easier time switching in, while Rain gives it's STAB water moves a 50% power boost on top of the potential to Swords Dance In the end, we've decided to BAN Chien-Pao.<br /><br /><br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/haxorus.png.m.1733184959' alt=':haxorus:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> has a sky-high attack stat of 147, the powerful Dragon type with STAB Outrage, great coverage and a good speed tier in 97. Due to the Dragon type's naturally great defensive profile, and Haxorus' relatively good bulk for such a strong threat, it had no shortage of entry points into battle. Sporting several strong, viable sets such as Choice Band/Scarf, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance and 4 Attacks Life Orb, Haxorus had few reliable checks and even fewer that could reliably answer more than one set. Similar to Chien-Pao, Haxorus was able to force in the opponent's physical check and use this to pivot into a different offensive threat, gaining crucial momentum. Haxorus proved too powerful and versatile a threat, and has been BANNED.<br /><br /><br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/iron-valiant.png.m.1733184959' alt=':iron-valiant:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> sports incredible mixed offenses, a very good speed tier, and a fantastically deep movepool absolutely full of coverage and powerful STAB moves alike. Psychic/Fighting is very solid offensive coverage, and Valiant packs options like the dark-type Poison Jab and Knock Off to threaten the Psychic types that naturally switch into it. Valiant has great versatility as well, with set-up options like Swords Dance and Calm Mind being just as viable as Choice Items or the powerful Booster Energy. Iron Valiant can act as a wallbreaker, sweeper, cleaner or powerful progress maker, and has been BANNED for it's combination of versatility, speed, strength and unpredictability.<br /><br /><br /><br /> edit: tagging <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/241023/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="241023" data-username="Kris">Kris</a> to implement once Showdown is back up </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div></blockquote><br /><br />lets go chomp lives yet again<br /><br />these bans kinda surprise me, i go on a three day trip and 2 mons ive never seen before get banned lol, I disagree with the IV ban but not anything I can do so *shrug* <br />This format is going to have a very extensive ban list lol</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" 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class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="DiamondDiancie25" data-content="post-9612583" id="js-post-9612583" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/9612583/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-9612583"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/diamonddiancie25.468940/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/diamonddiancie25.468940/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/forums/members/diamonddiancie25.468940/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="468940" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img 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itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-05-08T07:45:22-0400" data-timestamp="1683546322" data-date="May 8, 2023" data-time="7:45 AM" data-short="May '23" title="May 8, 2023 at 7:45 AM" itemprop="datePublished">May 8, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9612583" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9612583/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9612583"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9612583" rel="nofollow"> #55 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9612583" data-lb-caption-desc="DiamondDiancie25 · May 8, 2023 at 7:45 AM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">I feel attacked .-.<br /><br />Im just kidding lol, but these bans are quite accurate. The only notable checks to SD Quark Valiant that I have personally encountered on ladder are physically defensive Skeledirge and Corviknight. These arent even very reliable though, as if the alligator takes any sort of chip, its no longer a knock off switchin, and it is tasked with a LOT of mons, so it needs to be careful. As for Corviknight, while it eats its hits well, especially if physically defensive, theres always the chance of Valiant clicking knock off followed by a rouge zen headbutt flinch. And this is just the fact that its SD Quark, cause there's also the fact that it could just you know...not be physical.<br /><br />Haxorus I have not had a big deal with myself, but my main team runs physdef Skeledirge, which deals with it well enough. Anyone who runs into it without that set however has little chance, as Corviknight is the only other real way of eating those hits, as far as common mons go anyway.<br /><br />Chien was just way too good at revenge killing. Its speed tier is insane and its power is through the roof. You click SD on a pivot or hard-switch and you may just win a game on the spot, as just about nothing common was dealing with it. Skeledirge drops regardless of boost if spdef, Corviknight gets set up on and chunked, Clod is weak to Scared Sword, etc.<br /><br />I also wanna make this a joint post, as I want to recommend a couple sets to everyone that so far, I have either never seen or only saw once.<br /><br />Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet <br />Ability: Rough Skin <br />Tera Type: Dragon <br />EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe <br />Jolly Nature <br />- Stealth Rock <br />- Spikes <br />- Dragon Tail <br />- Earthquake<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/garchomp.png.m.1733184959' alt=':garchomp:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> is the last dragon who is genuinely incredible left at this point, and despite its devastating potential as an SD mon or a scarfer, Tankchomp has been my go to set from the beginning and it works like a charm. It is an expert of chip damage, as it is very hard to one shot using most other leads while always getting rocks up. From there, if it feels safe enough, it can set spikes as well to cause more of an effect. After that, or just after rocks if the situation calls for it, you simply spam Dragon Tail and put the opponent on Speed Wash. If you pull any physical attackers onto the field, you either force something else in to take more chip and dragon tailing another to force even more chip, or they attack you and lose potentially half of their HP in a flash. It is quite easy to use and is quite solid at punishing spinners. If you pack solid enough sweepers in the back, you can easily abuse the team wide chip it has spread to break through with haste. It may not be the most immediately threatening Garchomp set but I recommend some give it a try.<br /><br />Tyranitar @ Chople Berry <br />Ability: Sand Stream <br />Tera Type: Rock <br />EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe <br />Adamant Nature <br />- Dragon Dance <br />- Earthquake <br />- Crunch <br />- Taunt<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/tyranitar.png.m.1733184959' alt=':tyranitar:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> This is a more unorthodox set I came up with, but I love the results I have been getting thus far. It can function as a breaker by simply clicking attacks, but its main job is early-mid game attempts at sweeping. The plan is simple, get in, set up, Taunt the Skeledirge trying to burn you and the Corviknight trying to use you as setup bait, and set up more. It already threatens most Skeledirge sets off Taunt and stab Crunch alone, but once it is set up, it is very likely to get at least one crucial kill, if not just straight up sweeping. It rarely needs the power boost except against rarer mons like Bellibolt, so for its item, Chople Berry gives it the ability to catch that second dance against a solid number of Fighting types it otherwise would want no part of. To top it all off, Sand helps it take special hits with ease, giving it solid switchin potential against any special threat not packing Focus (miss) Blast. This has been my weapon of choice against Balance, and I recommend that anyone looking for a Balance breaker gives it a go as well. Just watch out for scarfers, mainly Scarf Garchomp, as it will be faster at +2, which is its overall biggest flaw, but if you can account for that, you will eat Balance alive.<br /><br />Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go find reasonable Valiant and Chien replacements.</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="8" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul class="reactionSummary"> <li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--1" data-reaction-id="1"><i aria-hidden="true"></i><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" loading="lazy" class="reaction-sprite js-reaction" alt="Like" title="Like" /></span></li> </ul> <span class="u-srOnly">Reactions:</span><a class="reactionsBar-link" href="/forums/posts/9612583/reactions" data-xf-click="overlay" data-cache="false" rel="nofollow"><bdi>Siamato</bdi>, <bdi>Pineapple1001</bdi>, <bdi>PQRDG</bdi> and 5 others</a> </div> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> </div> </article> <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="DosDogs" data-content="post-9613108" id="js-post-9613108" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/9613108/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-9613108"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/dosdogs.629310/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/dosdogs.629310/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/forums/members/dosdogs.629310/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="629310" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img src="/forums/data/avatars/m/629/629310.jpg?1678290180" srcset="/forums/data/avatars/l/629/629310.jpg?1678290180 2x" alt="DosDogs" class="avatar-u629310-m" width="96" height="96" loading="lazy" itemprop="image" /> </a> </div> </div> <div class="message-userDetails"> <h4 class="message-name"><a href="/forums/members/dosdogs.629310/" class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="629310" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span itemprop="name">DosDogs</span></a></h4> <h5 class="userTitle message-userTitle" dir="auto" itemprop="jobTitle">I like Cross Evolution</h5> <div class="message-userBadges"> <div class="marquee-holder"> <div class="marquee-content"><img src="/forums/media/badges/ladybug.png.m.1" alt="is a Pre-Contributor" title="is a Pre-Contributor" /></div> </div> </div> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9613108" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-05-08T15:17:18-0400" data-timestamp="1683573438" data-date="May 8, 2023" data-time="3:17 PM" data-short="May '23" title="May 8, 2023 at 3:17 PM" itemprop="datePublished">May 8, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9613108" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9613108/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9613108"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9613108" rel="nofollow"> #56 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9613108" data-lb-caption-desc="DosDogs · May 8, 2023 at 3:17 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">Even though the bans are not implemented and I am using a post-ban team (and the ladder is dead af)<br /><script class="js-extraPhrases" type="application/json"> { "lightbox_close": "Close", "lightbox_next": "Next", "lightbox_previous": "Previous", "lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.", "lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow", "lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow", "lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen", "lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails", "lightbox_download": "Download", "lightbox_share": "Share", "lightbox_zoom": "Zoom", "lightbox_new_window": "New window", "lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar" } </script> <div class="bbImageWrapper js-lbImage" title="Screenshot 2023-05-08 3.08.09 PM.png" data-src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/screenshot-2023-05-08-3-08-09-pm-png.514841/" data-lb-sidebar-href="" data-lb-caption-extra-html="" data-single-image="1"> <img src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/screenshot-2023-05-08-3-08-09-pm-png.514841/" data-url="" class="bbImage" data-zoom-target="1" style="" alt="Screenshot 2023-05-08 3.08.09 PM.png" title="Screenshot 2023-05-08 3.08.09 PM.png" width="387" height="272" loading="lazy" /> </div><br />top 3 lets go.<br /><br />Anyway, there is an interesting set I've been using.<br /><img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/iron-leaves.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/iron leaves:' /><br />My science project (Iron Leaves) @ Booster Energy<br />Ability: Quark Drive<br />Tera Type: Fighting<br />EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe<br />Jolly Nature<br />- Close Combat<br />- Leaf Blade<br />- Psyblade<br />- Agility<br /><br />this set is basically my Iron Valiant replacement, agility helps it outspeed a lot of revenge killers (looking at my boi scarf chomp) and booster give it revenge and sweeping capability, decent STAB moves help it as well.<br />the rest of my team are just normal good mons (I am not creative)<br /><br />Edit: decided to share my other mons since all the sets are already posted. the only one thats not is skele and we have all run into it before.<br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="button bbCodeSpoiler-button button--longText" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span><span class="bbCodeSpoiler-button-title">My post-bans Team</span></span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">My boi!!! (Garchomp) @ Choice Scarf <br />Ability: Rough Skin <br />Tera Type: Dragon <br />EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe <br />Jolly Nature <br />- Liquidation <br />- Outrage <br />- Earthquake <br />- Crunch<br /><br />My hate (Skeledirge) (F) @ Leftovers<br />Ability: Unaware<br />Tera Type: Fire<br />EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD<br />Calm Nature<br />IVs: 0 Atk<br />- Torch Song<br />- Will-O-Wisp<br />- Shadow Ball<br />- Slack Off<br /><br />My fun (Volcarona) (F) @ Lum Berry<br />Ability: Flame Body<br />Tera Type: Bug<br />EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe<br />Timid Nature<br />IVs: 0 Atk<br />- Quiver Dance<br />- Giga Drain<br />- Fiery Dance<br />- Will-O-Wisp<br /><br />My boredom (Corviknight) (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots<br />Ability: Pressure<br />Shiny: Yes<br />Tera Type: Flying<br />EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD<br />Impish Nature<br />- Body Slam<br />- Defog<br />- Roost<br />- U-turn<br /><br />My disappointment (Dudunsparce) (F) @ Leftovers<br />Ability: Rattled<br />Shiny: Yes<br />Tera Type: Normal<br />EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA<br />Bold Nature<br />IVs: 0 Atk<br />- Boomburst<br />- Glare<br />- Calm Mind<br />- Roost<br /><br />my science project (Iron Leaves) @ Booster Energy<br />Ability: Quark Drive<br />Tera Type: Grass<br />EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe<br />Jolly Nature<br />- Close Combat<br />- Leaf Blade<br />- Psyblade<br />- Agility</div> </div> </div></div>pretty simple team, two set up sweepers, kill the counters with leaves and chomp (before they kill the sweepers) use corv as pivot and PP stall. Skeledirge is just there to annoy the opponent and it can start snowballing pretty fast sometimes.<br /><br />Update: top 2 with this team, changed chomps nature to speed tho (1422)</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> <div class="message-lastEdit"> Last edited: <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-05-09T10:37:27-0400" data-timestamp="1683643047" data-date="May 9, 2023" data-time="10:37 AM" data-short="May '23" title="May 9, 2023 at 10:37 AM" itemprop="dateModified">May 9, 2023</time> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="7" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul class="reactionSummary"> <li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--1" data-reaction-id="1"><i 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class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-9616620"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/dosdogs.629310/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/dosdogs.629310/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/forums/members/dosdogs.629310/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="629310" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img src="/forums/data/avatars/m/629/629310.jpg?1678290180" srcset="/forums/data/avatars/l/629/629310.jpg?1678290180 2x" alt="DosDogs" class="avatar-u629310-m" width="96" height="96" loading="lazy" itemprop="image" /> </a> </div> </div> <div class="message-userDetails"> <h4 class="message-name"><a href="/forums/members/dosdogs.629310/" class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="629310" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span itemprop="name">DosDogs</span></a></h4> <h5 class="userTitle message-userTitle" dir="auto" itemprop="jobTitle">I like Cross Evolution</h5> <div class="message-userBadges"> <div class="marquee-holder"> <div class="marquee-content"><img src="/forums/media/badges/ladybug.png.m.1" alt="is a Pre-Contributor" title="is a Pre-Contributor" /></div> </div> </div> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9616620" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-05-12T11:06:19-0400" data-timestamp="1683903979" data-date="May 12, 2023" data-time="11:06 AM" data-short="May '23" title="May 12, 2023 at 11:06 AM" itemprop="datePublished">May 12, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9616620" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9616620/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9616620"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9616620" rel="nofollow"> #57 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9616620" data-lb-caption-desc="DosDogs · May 12, 2023 at 11:06 AM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><div style="text-align: center"><b><span style="font-size: 18px">DISCLAIMER</span></b><br /><span style="font-size: 18px"><b>THIS POST IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY<br />DO NOT TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY<br />THIS POST IS A JOKE<br />IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND, LOOK IT UP <br />YOU HAVE BEEN DISCLAIMERED </b></span><br />​</div>So dragons are really strong right? Then why is Garchomp not banned? Here is my conspiracy post on why Garchomp is the only dragon above UU not banned.<br /><br />First lets take a look at the banned dragons; Koriadon, Miraidon, Noivern, Dragonite, Cyclizar, Baxcaliber, Hydreigon, Walking Wake, Dragapult, Roaring Moon, Salamence, and Haxorus.<br />(organized by when they were banned)<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/koraidon.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/Koraidon:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/miraidon.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/miraidon:' /><br />The box legends are extremely strong in every meta, this meta is no different. Amazing stats and movepool along with borderline broken abilities, not hard to see why they were never allowed here.<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/noivern.gif.m.1733184910' alt=':sv/Noivern:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/cyclizar.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/Cyclizar:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/dragonite.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/Dragonite:' /><br />These are all Normal, Dragon types, making them extremely strong<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/cyclizar.png.m.1733184959' alt=':Cyclizar:' style='vertical-align: middle' /><br />Has access to shed tail, good coverage, and good speed+ability. This was very dominating in its time here<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/noivern.png.m.1733184959' alt=':Noivern:' style='vertical-align: middle' /><br />STAB boomburst is very strong in any meta, and the amazing Normal, Dragon type makes it even better. It even has access to physical set up moves like Ddance and a decent movepool, not that that is what got it banned.<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/dragonite.png.m.1733184959' alt=':Dragonite:' style='vertical-align: middle' /><br />Multiscale Ddance STAB espeed, not much more to say about that. It was/is extremely strong<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/baxcalibur.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/Baxcalibur:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/walking-wake.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/Walking wake:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/hydreigon.gif.m.1733184910' alt=':sv/Hydreigon:' /><br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/baxcalibur.png.m.1733184959' alt=':Baxcalibur:' style='vertical-align: middle' /><br />As a water dragon type, this mon has great offensive capiilities along with the signature Glaive Rush to destroy opponents, this thing can come it, set up a Ddance then sweep, so its banned.<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/walking-wake.png.m.1733184959' alt=':Walking wake:' style='vertical-align: middle' /><br />A strong SpA attacker with a strong movepool that fits into sun amazingly, as another dragon water type its STABs are very powerful, its speed made it hard to counter as well.<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/hydreigon.png.m.1733184959' alt=':Hydreigon:' style='vertical-align: middle' /><br />Easily could set up, a huge amount of resists and 2 immunitys make it difficult to break, and taunt destroys attemps to toxic or whirlwind it.<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/roaring-moon.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/Roaring Moon:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/salamence.gif.m.1733184910' alt=':sv/Salamence:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/dragapult.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/Dragapult:' /><br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/roaring-moon.png.m.1733184959' alt=':Roaring Moon:' style='vertical-align: middle' /><br />a great typing and movepool comboed with booster energy to make its attack stat crazy high.<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/salamence.png.m.1733184959' alt=':Salamence:' style='vertical-align: middle' /><br />Ddance roost moxie spam made this thing impossible to deal with after 2 Ddances<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/dragapult.png.m.1733184959' alt=':Dragapult:' style='vertical-align: middle' /><br />Now with good STAB and set up with Ddance made this thing a menace to deal with<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/haxorus.gif.m.1733184910' alt=':sv/Haxorus:' /><br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/haxorus.png.m.1733184959' alt=':Haxorus:' style='vertical-align: middle' /><br />pure dragon is just as good as duel types, with strong attacks and set up, dont forget that crazy attack stat it was difficult to beat in the meta it existed in.<br /><br />Now all of these dragons are banned, leaving ONE dragon above UU free, that dragon? Garchomp.<br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/garchomp.png.m.1733184959' alt=':Garchomp:' style='vertical-align: middle' /><br />not amazing, but good stats and a strong movepool. some versatility.<br /><br />One thing in common with almost all the banned dragons is a move called Dragon Dance, which many of the dragons abused, but some here are banned even though they would never use it, like Hydreigon, who is 100% fine, but it has dragon dance soooo BAN HAMMER.<br />Garchomp does not have dragon dance, and I am 100% serious when I say it would be banned if it did. Garchomps sets usually are scarf, support, or a bulky-ish attacker.<br /><br />So I believe that this council is DISCRIMINATING against dagons who like to DANCE!!!! LET THE DRAGONS DANCE!!! FREE THE DANCING DRAGONS!!!!<br /><br /><div style="text-align: center"><span style="font-size: 18px"><b>FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO NEED TO SEE THINGS TWICE:<br />THIS IS A DISCLAIMER<br />THIS POST IS A JOKE<br />YES I AM SCREAMING AT YOU<br />DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE NOT TO TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY <br />DO YOU KNOW WHAT A JOKE IS?</b></span><br /><br /><br /><b>THIS IS A DISCLAIMER FOR THE DISCLAIMERS<br />THEY ARE TOO INTENDED TO BE HUMOROUS <br />PLEASE DO NOT BE OFFENDED BY THE DISCLAIMERS (AND THE POST)</b>​</div></div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> <div class="message-lastEdit"> Last edited: <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-05-12T11:15:04-0400" data-timestamp="1683904504" data-date="May 12, 2023" data-time="11:15 AM" data-short="May '23" title="May 12, 2023 at 11:15 AM" itemprop="dateModified">May 12, 2023</time> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="9" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul class="reactionSummary"> <li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--1" data-reaction-id="1"><i aria-hidden="true"></i><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" loading="lazy" class="reaction-sprite js-reaction" alt="Like" title="Like" /></span></li><li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--3" data-reaction-id="3"><i aria-hidden="true"></i><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" loading="lazy" class="reaction-sprite js-reaction" alt="Haha" title="Haha" /></span></li> </ul> <span class="u-srOnly">Reactions:</span><a class="reactionsBar-link" href="/forums/posts/9616620/reactions" data-xf-click="overlay" data-cache="false" rel="nofollow"><bdi>PociekMociek</bdi>, <bdi>TechnoMikl</bdi>, <bdi>kenn</bdi> and 6 others</a> </div> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> </div> </article> <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="DosDogs" data-content="post-9631243" id="js-post-9631243" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/9631243/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-9631243"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/dosdogs.629310/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/dosdogs.629310/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/forums/members/dosdogs.629310/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="629310" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img src="/forums/data/avatars/m/629/629310.jpg?1678290180" srcset="/forums/data/avatars/l/629/629310.jpg?1678290180 2x" alt="DosDogs" class="avatar-u629310-m" width="96" height="96" loading="lazy" itemprop="image" /> </a> </div> </div> <div class="message-userDetails"> <h4 class="message-name"><a href="/forums/members/dosdogs.629310/" class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="629310" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span itemprop="name">DosDogs</span></a></h4> <h5 class="userTitle message-userTitle" dir="auto" itemprop="jobTitle">I like Cross Evolution</h5> <div class="message-userBadges"> <div class="marquee-holder"> <div class="marquee-content"><img src="/forums/media/badges/ladybug.png.m.1" alt="is a Pre-Contributor" title="is a Pre-Contributor" /></div> </div> </div> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9631243" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-05-23T15:45:35-0400" data-timestamp="1684871135" data-date="May 23, 2023" data-time="3:45 PM" data-short="May '23" title="May 23, 2023 at 3:45 PM" itemprop="datePublished">May 23, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9631243" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9631243/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg 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data-lb-caption-desc="DosDogs · May 23, 2023 at 3:45 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">So after fighting several Ceruledges on ladder and using one myself for some time now, I have decided to make a post about it <span style="font-size: 9px">because I swear I'm the only one who posts here</span><br /><img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/ceruledge.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/ceruledge:' /><br />Ceruledge @ Colbur Berry/Leftovers<br />Ability: Flash Fire<br />Tera Type: Fire <br />EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe <br />Jolly Nature <br />- Close Combat/Poison Jab<br />- Swords Dance <br />- Bitter Blade <br />- Shadow Sneak<br /><br />Colbur berry allows you to survive some crazy dark moves, like gambit sucker punch, but lefties provides good longevity. <br />Flash Fire is actually insane, ever since the set started popping up Skeledirge have been slowly leaving the meta, but being able to switch into a will-o-wisp or fire move, then set up an SD, then OHKO a mon and full heal with Bitter Blade is stupid broken. There are so few counters to this, Clodsire and opposing Ceruledges can, but if its running CC, RIP your clod, and if its running Poison Jab, then RIP your Ceruledge. The only thing that reliably counters it in my experience is this<br /><img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/gyarados.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/gyarados:' /><br />Gyarados @ Heavy-Duty Boots <br />Ability: Intimidate <br />Tera Type: Water <br />EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe <br />Jolly Nature <br />- Dragon Dance <br />- Earthquake <br />- Waterfall <br />- Thrash<br />Which survives a +1 Poison Jab and OHKO's with waterfall. It also can KO a lot of things with a +1 Thrash, and outspeed a good amount of mons at +1, just keep an eye out for electric types, grass really isn't popular enough to cause a problem outside of volc and moth.</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="3" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul class="reactionSummary"> <li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--1" data-reaction-id="1"><i aria-hidden="true"></i><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" loading="lazy" class="reaction-sprite js-reaction" alt="Like" title="Like" /></span></li> </ul> <span class="u-srOnly">Reactions:</span><a class="reactionsBar-link" href="/forums/posts/9631243/reactions" data-xf-click="overlay" data-cache="false" rel="nofollow"><bdi>Dark Koopatrol</bdi>, <bdi>Siamato</bdi> and <bdi>kenn</bdi></a> </div> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> </div> </article> <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="KaenSoul" data-content="post-9638697" id="js-post-9638697" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/9638697/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-9638697"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/kaensoul.554210/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/kaensoul.554210/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/forums/members/kaensoul.554210/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="554210" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img src="/forums/data/avatars/m/554/554210.jpg?1732464140" srcset="/forums/data/avatars/l/554/554210.jpg?1732464140 2x" alt="KaenSoul" class="avatar-u554210-m" width="96" height="96" loading="lazy" itemprop="image" /> </a> </div> </div> <div class="message-userDetails"> <h4 class="message-name"><a href="/forums/members/kaensoul.554210/" class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="554210" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span class="username--staff username--moderator" itemprop="name">KaenSoul</span></a></h4> <h5 class="userTitle message-userTitle" dir="auto" itemprop="jobTitle">Shared:Power Little Knight</h5> <div class="message-userBadges"> <div class="marquee-holder"> <div class="marquee-content"><img src="/forums/media/badges/aop.png.m.1" alt="is a Community Leader" title="is a Community Leader" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/cc.png.m.1" alt="is a Community Contributor" title="is a Community Contributor" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/resource.png.m.1" alt="is a Metagame Resource Contributor" title="is a Metagame Resource Contributor" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/tc.png.m.1" alt="is a Tiering Contributor" title="is a Tiering Contributor" /></div> </div> </div> <div class="userBanner userBanner userBanner--royalBlue message-userBanner" itemprop="jobTitle" nodeid="733"><span class="userBanner-before"></span><strong>Community Leader</strong><span class="userBanner-after"></span></div> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9638697" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-05-30T12:05:30-0400" data-timestamp="1685462730" data-date="May 30, 2023" data-time="12:05 PM" data-short="May '23" title="May 30, 2023 at 12:05 PM" itemprop="datePublished">May 30, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9638697" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9638697/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9638697"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9638697" rel="nofollow"> #59 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9638697" data-lb-caption-desc="KaenSoul · May 30, 2023 at 12:05 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">HOME changes:<br />Unbanned<br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/houndstone.png.m.1733184959' alt=':houndstone:' style='vertical-align: middle' /><br />New Pokémon Bans: <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/arceus.png.m.1733184959' alt=':arceus:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/calyrex-shadow.png.m.1733184959' alt=':calyrex-shadow:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/calyrex-ice.png.m.1733184959' alt=':calyrex-ice:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/dialga.png.m.1733184959' alt=':dialga:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/dialga-origin.png.m.1733184959' alt=':dialga-origin:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/eternatus.png.m.1733184959' alt=':eternatus:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/giratina.png.m.1733184959' alt=':giratina:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/giratina-origin.png.m.1733184959' alt=':giratina-origin:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/groudon.png.m.1733184959' alt=':groudon:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/kyogre.png.m.1733184959' alt=':kyogre:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/mewtwo.png.m.1733184959' alt=':mewtwo:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/palkia.png.m.1733184959' alt=':palkia:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/palkia-origin.png.m.1733184959' alt=':palkia-origin:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/rayquaza.png.m.1733184959' alt=':rayquaza:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/zacian.png.m.1733184959' alt=':zacian:' style='vertical-align: middle' /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/zacian-crowned.png.m.1733184959' alt=':zacian-crowned:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/regieleki.png.m.1733184959' alt=':regieleki:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/regidrago.png.m.1733184959' alt=':regidrago:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/landorus.png.m.1733184959' alt=':landorus:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/urshifu.png.m.1733184959' alt=':urshifu:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> (base)<br />Last Respects is also banned.</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" 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data-date="May 30, 2023" data-time="12:57 PM" data-short="May '23" title="May 30, 2023 at 12:57 PM" itemprop="datePublished">May 30, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9638787" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9638787/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9638787"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9638787" rel="nofollow"> #60 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9638787" data-lb-caption-desc="G-Luke · May 30, 2023 at 12:57 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">Woah, Zacian and Zacian Crowned are free?!?</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="4" /> <meta 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HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9638794" rel="nofollow"> #61 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9638794" data-lb-caption-desc="KaenSoul · May 30, 2023 at 1:01 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 264912" data-quote="G-Luke" data-source="post: 9638787" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=9638787" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-9638787">G-Luke said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Woah, Zacian and Zacian Crowned are free?!? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div></blockquote>Thanks for pointing out, skipped Crowned, but base was already there.</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="3" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul class="reactionSummary"> <li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--1" data-reaction-id="1"><i aria-hidden="true"></i><img 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class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/kenn.604741/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/kenn.604741/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/forums/members/kenn.604741/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="604741" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img src="/forums/data/avatars/m/604/604741.jpg?1732999320" srcset="/forums/data/avatars/l/604/604741.jpg?1732999320 2x" alt="kenn" class="avatar-u604741-m" width="96" height="96" loading="lazy" itemprop="image" /> </a> </div> </div> <div class="message-userDetails"> <h4 class="message-name"><a href="/forums/members/kenn.604741/" class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="604741" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span class="username--staff username--moderator" itemprop="name">kenn</span></a></h4> <h5 class="userTitle message-userTitle" dir="auto" itemprop="jobTitle">Naughty or nice—which is it? Speak up!</h5> <div class="message-userBadges"> <div class="marquee-holder"> <div class="marquee-content"><img src="/forums/media/badges/forummod.png.m.1" alt="is a Forum Moderator" title="is a Forum Moderator" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/cc.png.m.1" alt="is a Community Contributor" title="is a Community Contributor" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/resource.png.m.1" alt="is a Metagame Resource Contributor" title="is a Metagame Resource Contributor" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/cap.png.m.1" alt="is a CAP Contributor" title="is a CAP Contributor" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/simmod.png.m.2" alt="is a Battle Simulator Moderator" title="is a Battle Simulator Moderator" /></div> </div> </div> <div class="userBanner userBanner userBanner--primary message-userBanner" itemprop="jobTitle" nodeid="733"><span class="userBanner-before"></span><strong>Moderator</strong><span class="userBanner-after"></span></div> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9685558" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-06-29T15:14:28-0400" data-timestamp="1688066068" data-date="Jun 29, 2023" data-time="3:14 PM" data-short="Jun '23" title="Jun 29, 2023 at 3:14 PM" itemprop="datePublished">Jun 29, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9685558" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9685558/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9685558"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9685558" rel="nofollow"> #62 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9685558" data-lb-caption-desc="kenn · Jun 29, 2023 at 3:14 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">Just got a quick announcement for y'all. From here on out, I am no longer gonna be leading TCG. <img src="/forums/media/emoji/psycry.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":psycry:" title="psycry :psycry:" data-shortname=":psycry:" /><br /><br />I love the OM, but I just can't dedicate time to make it thrive like I want to see it do so I thought it best to leave it in the capable hands of the council as well as the new leader <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/540420/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="540420" data-username="AlexSaysBruh123">AlexSaysBruh123</a> <br /><br />I know they will do great things as leader and as to who will replace me on council...that honor goes to <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/629310/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="629310" data-username="DosDogs">DosDogs</a> !!! They have kindly stepped up to the plate and have been a big factor in trying to keep this thread alive during its OMotM run as well as being a huge proponent testing and theory morning ideas for the OM itself.<br /><br />Have fun you guys! Can't wait to see how you guys shape this OM!<br /><br /><span style="font-size: 9px">Tagging <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/523866/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="523866" data-username="UT">UT</a> <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/554210/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="554210" data-username="KaenSoul">KaenSoul</a> <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/324242/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="324242" data-username="in the hills">in the hills</a> to give the OP and reserved posts over to Alex.</span></div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="11" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> 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data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> </div> </article> <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="Tidal" data-content="post-9685846" id="js-post-9685846" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/9685846/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-9685846"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/tidal.540420/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/tidal.540420/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/forums/members/tidal.540420/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="540420" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img src="/forums/data/avatars/m/540/540420.jpg?1734026086" srcset="/forums/data/avatars/l/540/540420.jpg?1734026086 2x" alt="Tidal" class="avatar-u540420-m" width="96" height="96" loading="lazy" itemprop="image" /> </a> </div> </div> <div class="message-userDetails"> <h4 class="message-name"><a href="/forums/members/tidal.540420/" class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="540420" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span class="username--staff username--moderator" itemprop="name">Tidal</span></a></h4> <h5 class="userTitle message-userTitle" dir="auto" itemprop="jobTitle">Formerly Rae</h5> <div class="message-userBadges"> <div class="marquee-holder"> <div class="marquee-content"><img src="/forums/media/badges/social.png.m.1" alt="is a Social Media Contributor" title="is a Social Media Contributor" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/forummod.png.m.1" alt="is a Forum Moderator" title="is a Forum Moderator" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/cc.png.m.1" alt="is a Community Contributor" title="is a Community Contributor" /></div> </div> </div> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9685846" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-06-29T20:57:07-0400" data-timestamp="1688086627" data-date="Jun 29, 2023" data-time="8:57 PM" data-short="Jun '23" title="Jun 29, 2023 at 8:57 PM" itemprop="datePublished">Jun 29, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9685846" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9685846/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9685846"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9685846" rel="nofollow"> #63 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9685846" data-lb-caption-desc="Tidal · Jun 29, 2023 at 8:57 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">Firstly, I can't thank <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/604741/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="604741" data-username="kenn">kenn</a> enough for all he's done for the meta, and another warm welcome to <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/629310/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="629310" data-username="DosDogs">DosDogs</a>!<br /><br />With this transition comes a few minor updates. The watchlist has been fully updated and will continue to be monitored for the post-Home meta-- we hear people's complaints when they play and we have our eyes on it!<br /><br />I speak on behalf of myself and not the council as a whole here, but I do also hope to get a preliminary VR up and running, as well as sample teams and other resources. A public discord server with matchseeking is also hardly out of the question, but that of course depends on interest. Thank you all again for playing as we get through this transitory period in the metagame <img src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/media/emoji/quagchamppogsire.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":quagchamppogsire:" title="quagchamppogsire :quagchamppogsire:" data-shortname=":quagchamppogsire:" /></div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> <div class="message-lastEdit"> Last edited: <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-06-29T21:32:26-0400" data-timestamp="1688088746" data-date="Jun 29, 2023" data-time="9:32 PM" data-short="Jun '23" title="Jun 29, 2023 at 9:32 PM" itemprop="dateModified">Jun 29, 2023</time> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="9" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList 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<article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="Tidal" data-content="post-9686671" id="js-post-9686671" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/9686671/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-9686671"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/tidal.540420/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/tidal.540420/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/forums/members/tidal.540420/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="540420" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img src="/forums/data/avatars/m/540/540420.jpg?1734026086" srcset="/forums/data/avatars/l/540/540420.jpg?1734026086 2x" alt="Tidal" class="avatar-u540420-m" width="96" height="96" loading="lazy" itemprop="image" /> </a> </div> </div> <div class="message-userDetails"> <h4 class="message-name"><a href="/forums/members/tidal.540420/" class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="540420" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span class="username--staff username--moderator" itemprop="name">Tidal</span></a></h4> <h5 class="userTitle message-userTitle" dir="auto" itemprop="jobTitle">Formerly Rae</h5> <div class="message-userBadges"> <div class="marquee-holder"> <div class="marquee-content"><img src="/forums/media/badges/social.png.m.1" alt="is a Social Media Contributor" title="is a Social Media Contributor" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/forummod.png.m.1" alt="is a Forum Moderator" title="is a Forum Moderator" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/cc.png.m.1" alt="is a Community Contributor" title="is a Community Contributor" /></div> </div> </div> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9686671" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-06-30T17:59:38-0400" data-timestamp="1688162378" data-date="Jun 30, 2023" data-time="5:59 PM" data-short="Jun '23" title="Jun 30, 2023 at 5:59 PM" itemprop="datePublished">Jun 30, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9686671" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9686671/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg 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data-lb-caption-desc="Tidal · Jun 30, 2023 at 5:59 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><div style="text-align: center"><img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/cyclizar.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/cyclizar:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/espathra.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/espathra:' /><br /><span style="font-size: 22px"><b>Cyclizar and Espathra have been FREED in TCG, and Shed Tail has been BANNED!</b></span>​</div><div class="bbTable"><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td></td><td>AlexSaysBruh123 </td><td>DosDogs </td><td>KaenSoul </td><td>PQRDG </td><td><b>Verdict</b></td></tr><tr><td>Annihilape</td><td>No Action</td><td>No Action</td><td>No Action</td><td>Abstain</td><td><b>REMAINS BANNED</b></td></tr><tr><td>Cyclizar, with Shed Tail ban</td><td>Unban</td><td>Abstain</td><td>No Action</td><td>Unban</td><td><b>UNBAN CYCLIZAR<br />BAN SHED TAIL</b></td></tr><tr><td>Espathra</td><td>Unban</td><td>Unban</td><td>Unban</td><td>Unban</td><td><b>UNBAN</b></td></tr></table></div><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/espathra.png.m.1733184959' alt=':espathra:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> Espathra still possesses the valuable Psychic typing, and the ability to snowball in the right circumstances, but with the Terastal mechanic banned, it has a lot more trouble getting through the common Dark- and Steel-types. It has access to no Fighting- or Fire-type moves, bar the weak, physical Low Kick, meaning it essentially only has STAB + Normal/Grass/Steel coverage, none of which serve to break through the resists and immunities that put an instant end to an Espathra sweep. Espathra can still be dangerous in the right scenario, but it has a much tougher time getting in that scenario and, with Tera gone, is much more competitive. As such, Espathra has been <b>freed</b>, but we will have a close eye on it.<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/orthworm.png.m.1733184959' alt=':orthworm:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> Shed Tail proved to be an uncompetitive move from the start. After Cyclizar was banned, Orthworm stepped up, boasting a solid Steel-type, the ability to widely set hazards, and longevity thanks to the critical Earth Eater ability condensing into a Fighting-type immunity, and the ubiquitous Shed Tail giving an unfair advantage to offensive teams. Shed Tail has proven uncompetitive, and as such has been <b>banned</b> from TCG.<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/cyclizar.png.m.1733184959' alt=':cyclizar:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> With Shed Tail banned, the idea of freeing Cyclizar came naturally. While it boasts the incredible Normal/Dragon typing and the powerful Shift Gear, it also has considerably below-average stats, bar speed, trouble switching in to even neutral hits, and a lack of reliable physical Fighting- or Fire-type moves, meaning that it struggles to break through Steel-types even with a boost. It does, of course, possess Overheat for special sets, but these sets are heavily prediction reliant. Cyclizar, of course, will have a close eye kept on it, but it has been <b>freed</b> in TCG!<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/annihilape.png.m.1733184959' alt=':annihilape:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> The council also voted on Annihilape, but decided that it would remain unhealthy in the tier. <br /><br /><span style="font-size: 10px">tagging <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/241023/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="241023" data-username="Kris">Kris</a> to implement</span></div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="4" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul 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class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="Dark Koopatrol" data-content="post-9688368" id="js-post-9688368" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/9688368/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-9688368"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/dark-koopatrol.631351/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/dark-koopatrol.631351/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/forums/members/dark-koopatrol.631351/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="631351" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img src="/forums/data/avatars/m/631/631351.jpg?1699350071" alt="Dark Koopatrol" class="avatar-u631351-m" width="96" height="96" loading="lazy" itemprop="image" /> </a> </div> </div> <div class="message-userDetails"> <h4 class="message-name"><a href="/forums/members/dark-koopatrol.631351/" class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="631351" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span itemprop="name">Dark Koopatrol</span></a></h4> <div class="message-userBadges"> <div class="marquee-holder"> <div class="marquee-content"></div> </div> </div> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9688368" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-07-01T16:54:17-0400" data-timestamp="1688244857" data-date="Jul 1, 2023" data-time="4:54 PM" data-short="Jul '23" title="Jul 1, 2023 at 4:54 PM" itemprop="datePublished">Jul 1, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9688368" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9688368/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9688368"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9688368" rel="nofollow"> #65 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9688368" data-lb-caption-desc="Dark Koopatrol · Jul 1, 2023 at 4:54 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="button bbCodeSpoiler-button button--longText" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span><span class="bbCodeSpoiler-button-title">Why I feel like Flutter Mane should be banned and some checks for it</span></span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">Just by looking at the TCG type chart, you can see that Fighting and Psychic are the two most common types, which can be hit for SE with Moonblast and Dark Pulse. Power Gem can also hit Steels and more importantly Darks for SE damage, giving it nearly perfect coverage. Flutter Mane can also run Mystical Fire for certain mons such as Corviknight or Psyshock for special walls. Due to its absurd coverage, it can hit most special walls for SE damage, which allows it to break past many of them, and if it can't, Psyshock will often work.<br /><br />Anyway, since it is in fact legal atm, here's some sets that can check it:<br /><br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/slowking-galar.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/slowking-galar:' /><br /><br />Slowking-Galar @ Leftovers <br />Ability: Regenerator <br />Tera Type: Poison <br />EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD <br />Sassy Nature <br />IVs: 0 Atk <br />- Chilly Reception <br />- Sludge Bomb <br />- Slack Off <br />- Future Sight<br />This is pretty much just a general special wall that can check Flutter Mane, not much to say here.<br /><br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="button bbCodeSpoiler-button button--longText" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span><span class="bbCodeSpoiler-button-title">Calcs</span></span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. Slowking-Galar: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 91-108 (23 - 27.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 91-108 (23 - 27.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 85-101 (21.5 - 25.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery<br />Flutter Mane Psyshock vs. Slowking-Galar: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br /><br />0 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 164-194 (65.3 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO<br />-1 0 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 108-128 (43 - 50.9%) -- 3.5% chance to 2HKO<br />-2 0 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 84-98 (33.4 - 39%) -- guaranteed 3HKO<br />-3 0 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 66-80 (26.2 - 31.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO<br />-4 0 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 54-66 (21.5 - 26.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 4HKO<br />-5 0 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 48-56 (19.1 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO<br />-6 0 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 42-50 (16.7 - 19.9%) -- guaranteed 6HKO<br /><br />I am aware that Glowking will probably not reach -6, but hey I've calced it in case you somehow do reach -6!</div> </div> </div></div><br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/slowking-galar.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/slowking-galar:' /><br /><br />Slowking-Galar @ Assault Vest <br />Ability: Regenerator <br />Tera Type: Poison <br />EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 120 SpA / 120 SpD <br />Calm Nature <br />IVs: 0 Atk <br />- Future Sight <br />- Sludge Bomb <br />- Power Gem <br />- Flamethrower<br /><br />This is just an AV version of Glowking. It uses the EVs for the OU AV Glowking, so there might be slightly better EVs, but this gets the job done. Again there's not much else to say. You could run a similar set on Glowbro if you wanted to, but quite frankly that's just a worse version of this.<br /><br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="button bbCodeSpoiler-button button--longText" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span><span class="bbCodeSpoiler-button-title">Calcs</span></span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. Slowking-Galar: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 68-80 (17.2 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 68-80 (17.2 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 63-75 (15.9 - 19%) -- possible 6HKO<br />Flutter Mane Psyshock vs. Slowking-Galar: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br /><br />120 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 182-216 (72.5 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO<br />-1 120 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 120-144 (47.8 - 57.3%) -- 87.1% chance to 2HKO<br />-2 120 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 92-110 (36.6 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO<br />-3 120 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 74-90 (29.4 - 35.8%) -- 17.8% chance to 3HKO<br />-4 120 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 62-74 (24.7 - 29.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO<br />-5 120 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 50-62 (19.9 - 24.7%) -- possible 5HKO<br />-6 120 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 48-56 (19.1 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO</div> </div> </div></div><br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/bombirdier.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/bombirdier:' /><br /><br />Bombirdier @ Heavy-Duty Boots <br />Ability: Rocky Payload <br />Tera Type: Flying <br />EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD <br />Careful Nature <br />- Roost <br />- Knock Off <br />- U-turn <br />- Drill Run<br /><br />This pretty much just a utility set that can switch in on an attack, heal up if necessary, and threaten a KO with Knock Off. Make sure you have enough HP left while doing so, and that you don't lose your Heavy-Duty Boots. I feel like the move choices are pretty obvious, so I'm not going to explain them. You could also use a similar set with Moltres-Galar which gets 5HKOd, but it doesn't have recovery, can't OHKO, and get its SpA lowered by Mystical Fire which turns a 2HKO into a 2HKO, assuming you switch in when it uses it, so I feel like Bombirdier is generally better. Not going to take complete credit for this set, I theorymonned it with <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/629310/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="629310" data-username="DosDogs">DosDogs</a>.<br /><br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="button bbCodeSpoiler-button button--longText" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span><span class="bbCodeSpoiler-button-title">Calcs</span></span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. Bombirdier: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bombirdier: 53-63 (15.4 - 18.3%) -- possible 6HKO<br />Flutter Mane Power Gem vs. Bombirdier: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bombirdier: 102-120 (29.6 - 34.8%) -- 11.8% chance to 3HKO<br />Flutter Mane Psyshock vs. Bombirdier: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br /><br />0 Atk Bombirdier Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flutter Mane: 348-410 (138.6 - 163.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO</div> </div> </div></div><br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/spiritomb.gif.m.1733184910' alt=':sv/spiritomb:' /><br /><br />Spiritomb @ Leftovers <br />Ability: Pressure <br />Tera Type: Ghost <br />EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD <br />Calm Nature <br />IVs: 0 Atk <br />- Calm Mind <br />- Rest <br />- Sleep Talk <br />- Dark Pulse<br /><br />This is its NU set but with more SpD investment, it's pretty self-explanatory.<br /><br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="button bbCodeSpoiler-button button--longText" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span><span class="bbCodeSpoiler-button-title">Calcs</span></span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. Spiritomb: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 92-109 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Dark Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 62-73 (20.3 - 24%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Dark Pulse vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 46-55 (15.1 - 18%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Dark Pulse vs. +3 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 37-44 (12.1 - 14.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Dark Pulse vs. +4 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 31-37 (10.1 - 12.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Dark Pulse vs. +5 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 27-32 (8.8 - 10.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Dark Pulse vs. +6 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 23-28 (7.5 - 9.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 92-109 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Power Gem vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 62-73 (20.3 - 24%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Power Gem vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 46-55 (15.1 - 18%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Power Gem vs. +3 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 37-44 (12.1 - 14.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Power Gem vs. +4 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 31-37 (10.1 - 12.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Power Gem vs. +5 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 27-32 (8.8 - 10.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Power Gem vs. +6 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 23-28 (7.5 - 9.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 86-102 (28.2 - 33.5%) -- 92.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Mystical Fire vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 58-69 (19 - 22.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Mystical Fire vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 44-52 (14.4 - 17.1%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Mystical Fire vs. +3 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 35-42 (11.5 - 13.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Mystical Fire vs. +4 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 29-35 (9.5 - 11.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Mystical Fire vs. +5 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 25-30 (8.2 - 9.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br />252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Mystical Fire vs. +6 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 22-27 (7.2 - 8.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br />Flutter Mane Psyshock vs. Spiritomb: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever<br /><br />0 SpA Spiritomb Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 126-150 (50.1 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO<br />+1 0 SpA Spiritomb Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 186-222 (74.1 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO<br />+2 0 SpA Spiritomb Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 248-294 (98.8 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO<br />+3 0 SpA Spiritomb Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 308-366 (122.7 - 145.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO</div> </div> </div></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div 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</div> </article> <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="Tidal" data-content="post-9688563" id="js-post-9688563" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/9688563/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-9688563"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/tidal.540420/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/tidal.540420/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/forums/members/tidal.540420/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="540420" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img src="/forums/data/avatars/m/540/540420.jpg?1734026086" srcset="/forums/data/avatars/l/540/540420.jpg?1734026086 2x" alt="Tidal" class="avatar-u540420-m" width="96" height="96" loading="lazy" itemprop="image" /> </a> </div> </div> <div class="message-userDetails"> <h4 class="message-name"><a href="/forums/members/tidal.540420/" class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="540420" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span class="username--staff username--moderator" itemprop="name">Tidal</span></a></h4> <h5 class="userTitle message-userTitle" dir="auto" itemprop="jobTitle">Formerly Rae</h5> <div class="message-userBadges"> <div class="marquee-holder"> <div class="marquee-content"><img src="/forums/media/badges/social.png.m.1" alt="is a Social Media Contributor" title="is a Social Media Contributor" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/forummod.png.m.1" alt="is a Forum Moderator" title="is a Forum Moderator" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/cc.png.m.1" alt="is a Community Contributor" title="is a Community Contributor" /></div> </div> </div> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9688563" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-07-01T21:12:20-0400" data-timestamp="1688260340" data-date="Jul 1, 2023" data-time="9:12 PM" data-short="Jul '23" title="Jul 1, 2023 at 9:12 PM" itemprop="datePublished">Jul 1, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9688563" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9688563/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9688563"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9688563" rel="nofollow"> #66 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9688563" data-lb-caption-desc="Tidal · Jul 1, 2023 at 9:12 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">Flutter Mane has consistently been a non-issue in the past few months of the metagame, and there are currently no plans to take any action on it. I'll dissect this the best I can, while providing some alternative checks. I speak on behalf of myself here, and not the council as a whole.<br /> <blockquote data-attributes="member: 631351" data-quote="Dark Koopatrol" data-source="post: 9688368" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=9688368" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-9688368">Dark Koopatrol said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Just by looking at the TCG type chart, you can see that Fighting and Psychic are the two most common types, which can be hit for SE with Moonblast and Dark Pulse. Power Gem can also hit Steels and more importantly Darks for SE damage, giving it nearly perfect coverage. Flutter Mane can also run Mystical Fire for certain mons such as Corviknight or Psyshock for special walls. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div></blockquote>It's true that Flutter Mane has the coverage for many of the Pokemon in the metagame, meaning it theoretically deals with all of them. There is, however, three main reasons that it is not problematic and I do not see it becoming so.<br /><br /><b>1: Choiced Sets are highly prediction reliant.</b><br />Flutter Mane has the option to don a Choice Specs for higher damage output, or a Choice Scarf for an excellent speed tier, but both of these suffer from one core issue: Choice Items are inherently prediction reliant. It is not hard to safely scout against a Flutter Mane using one of the many checks I'll get into later, or by using Protect, slow pivoting moves, etc. If a Flutter Mane is locked into an unfavorable move, it's very easy to force it out or even take advantage of it with your own set-up sweepers. Even if Flutter Mane is locked into a favorable move, it's still hardly game over or even a drain on momentum, which brings me into the second point.<br /><br /><b>2: Flutter Mane's coverage is unimpressive when unboosted.</b><br />All of the coverage options states sit at a mediocre base 80 power-- aside from the even weaker Mystical Fire. While this does not make the moves weak, it does mean that it isn't a massive threat in most scenarios. Power Gem and Dark Pulse miss out on many of the rolls you'd <i>need</i> to hit in order to be a massive threat. It can force things out, but it will almost never be forcing something out without either a Specs boost-- which leads to it easily being taken advantage of-- or a Calm Mind boost, which can be very hard to get with how easy it is to force out.<br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="button bbCodeSpoiler-button button--longText" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span><span class="bbCodeSpoiler-button-title">Coverage Calcs</span></span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">252 SpA Flutter Mane Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skeledirge: 156-184 (<b>37.9 - 44.7%</b>) -- guaranteed 3HKO<br />252 SpA Flutter Mane Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 120-142 (<b>29.7 - 35.1%</b>) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage<br />252 SpA Flutter Mane Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 112-134 (<b>21.7 - 26%</b>) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery<br />252+ SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 184-218 (<b>35.7 - 42.4%</b>) -- 91.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery<br />252 SpA Flutter Mane Mystical Fire vs. 248 HP / 168 SpD Corviknight: 160-190 (<b>40.1 - 47.6%</b>) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery<br />252 SpA Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Purifying Salt Garganacl: 61-73 (<b>15 - 18%</b>) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery<br />252 SpA Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Purifying Salt Garganacl: 87-103 (<b>21.5 - 25.4%</b>) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery<br />All of these calcs were done with the proper type changes. Moonblast is obviously a STAB move, but this felt relevant to put here.</div> </div> </div></div>Your coverage is, without a boost, relatively unthreatening to most of the best defensive Pokemon in the meta, which allows you to be easily switched in on in many cases. Now, with a boost such as Calm Mind, you become considerably more threatening, but this can still be taken advantage of.<br /><br /><b>2.5: 4MSS</b><br />Flutter Mane can not carry both a boosting move and the coverage it wants. Calm Mind sacrifices one of your crucial coverage moves, meaning that something <i>will</i> be able to take advantage of a Flutter Mane trying to boost to either force it out, pivot into another offensively inclined teammate, or set up yourself. Unaware Pokemon like Skeledirge and Clodsire also do not care about Calm Mind boosts. While it is not impossible for Flutter Mane to acquire boosts, it's also easy to take advantage of offensively.<br /><br /><b>3: Flutter Mane is easily forced out.</b><br />Mono-Psychic is not an incredible defensive typing. You have resistances to both Psychic and Fighting, which is great, but you have a crucial, debilitating weakness to Dark moves, including priority Sucker Punch, the commonly spammed Knock Off, and common coverage moves Night Slash, Crunch and Throat Chop. Flutter Mane is hard enough to get onto the field, but it's also easily forced out when it's on the field. Common Sucker Punch users like Kingambit, Life Orb Samurott-Hisui, Meowscarada, Lycanroc-Dusk and Cinderace will pretty much always OHKO Flutter Mane. Scarf mons like Samurott-Hisui, Great Tusk, Offensive Garchomp, and Gholdengo all force it out, and Meowscarada naturally outspeeds if Flutter is running Modest.<br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="button bbCodeSpoiler-button button--longText" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span><span class="bbCodeSpoiler-button-title">Gholdengo calc</span></span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 255-302 (101.5 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns</div> </div> </div></div><br />Flutter Mane is a very good mon. I'd probably put it around A-, if I had to get a tier list out today, but what Flutter Mane is not is overbearing. Flutter Mane has reasonable counterplay, both offensively and defensively, and I do not consider it a problem by any means. I strongly oppose any action to be taken against it, until it proves worthy of it outside of theory.<br /><br />It's also worth noting that there has not been that many games post-Home, aside from friendlies and roomtours. Any ban we make, if we were to ban anything right now, would be entirely based on theory, which is something we will <b>not</b> be doing. We will not be making any crucial decisions based on speculation alone. If Flutter Mane proves problematic, it will be dealt with, but as of right now it is not a top priority.</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="6" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul class="reactionSummary"> <li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--1" data-reaction-id="1"><i aria-hidden="true"></i><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" loading="lazy" class="reaction-sprite js-reaction" alt="Like" title="Like" /></span></li> </ul> <span class="u-srOnly">Reactions:</span><a class="reactionsBar-link" href="/forums/posts/9688563/reactions" data-xf-click="overlay" data-cache="false" rel="nofollow"><bdi>zastra</bdi>, <bdi>kenn</bdi>, <bdi>Siamato</bdi> and 3 others</a> </div> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> </div> </article> <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="Tidal" data-content="post-9779006" id="js-post-9779006" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/9779006/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-9779006"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/tidal.540420/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/tidal.540420/" /> <div 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href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9779006" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9779006/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9779006"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9779006" rel="nofollow"> #67 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9779006" data-lb-caption-desc="Tidal · Sep 13, 2023 at 6:20 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><s><span style="font-size: 12px">new DLC new me new double post</span></s><br /><br /><div style="text-align: center"><b><span style="font-size: 18px"><img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/kommo-o.gif.m.1733184910' alt=':sv/kommo-o:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/dudunsparce.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/dudunsparce:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/ursaluna.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/ursaluna:' /></span><br /><span style="font-size: 22px">Kommo-o, Dudunsparce, and Ursaluna have been quickbanned!</span></b><br />​</div><span style="font-size: 15px"><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/kommo-o.png.m.1733184959' alt=':kommo-o:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone familiar with the tier, Dragon/Fighting with Dragon Dance and/or Clangorous Soul, very solid coverage for the tier, and Flamethrower to burn Corviknight to a crisp, Kommo-o was never going to be balanced in the tier, with options like Belly Drum and Iron Defense Body Press only furthering this. Kommo-o was always going to be too much, and thus will be BANNED on DLC implementation. <br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/dudunsparce.png.m.1733184959' alt=':dudunsparce:' style='vertical-align: middle' /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/ursaluna.png.m.1733184959' alt=':ursaluna:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> Dudunsparce has been on the radar for a long while now, with Ursaluna joining it recently, I don't think I need to elaborate very much here, they're powerful, bulky Normal-types with no weaknesses that can set up in front of the majority of the tier and win on the spot.<br /><br />The watchlist has been updated with some of the more notable threats and winners of DLC, including <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/garchomp.png.m.1733184959' alt=':garchomp:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> regaining Scale Shot, <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/darkrai.png.m.1733184959' alt=':darkrai:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> with its high Speed and Special Attack and access to Nasty Plot, and Okidogi for its high Attack, solid bulk, and potential to spiral quickly with Bulk Up + Drain Punch<br /><br />Happy playing! <s>we'll do more roomtours soon i promise</s></span></div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="9" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul class="reactionSummary"> <li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--1" data-reaction-id="1"><i aria-hidden="true"></i><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" loading="lazy" class="reaction-sprite js-reaction" alt="Like" 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" dir="auto" data-user-id="540420" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span class="username--staff username--moderator" itemprop="name">Tidal</span></a></h4> <h5 class="userTitle message-userTitle" dir="auto" itemprop="jobTitle">Formerly Rae</h5> <div class="message-userBadges"> <div class="marquee-holder"> <div class="marquee-content"><img src="/forums/media/badges/social.png.m.1" alt="is a Social Media Contributor" title="is a Social Media Contributor" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/forummod.png.m.1" alt="is a Forum Moderator" title="is a Forum Moderator" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/cc.png.m.1" alt="is a Community Contributor" title="is a Community Contributor" /></div> </div> </div> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9779013" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-09-13T18:24:23-0400" data-timestamp="1694643863" data-date="Sep 13, 2023" data-time="6:24 PM" data-short="Sep '23" title="Sep 13, 2023 at 6:24 PM" itemprop="datePublished">Sep 13, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9779013" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9779013/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div 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<span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-9817985"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/tidal.540420/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/tidal.540420/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/forums/members/tidal.540420/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="540420" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img src="/forums/data/avatars/m/540/540420.jpg?1734026086" srcset="/forums/data/avatars/l/540/540420.jpg?1734026086 2x" alt="Tidal" class="avatar-u540420-m" width="96" height="96" loading="lazy" itemprop="image" /> </a> </div> </div> <div class="message-userDetails"> <h4 class="message-name"><a href="/forums/members/tidal.540420/" class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="540420" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span class="username--staff username--moderator" itemprop="name">Tidal</span></a></h4> <h5 class="userTitle message-userTitle" dir="auto" itemprop="jobTitle">Formerly Rae</h5> <div class="message-userBadges"> <div class="marquee-holder"> <div class="marquee-content"><img src="/forums/media/badges/social.png.m.1" alt="is a Social Media Contributor" title="is a Social Media Contributor" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/forummod.png.m.1" alt="is a Forum Moderator" title="is a Forum Moderator" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/cc.png.m.1" alt="is a Community Contributor" title="is a Community Contributor" /></div> </div> </div> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9817985" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-10-10T21:19:54-0400" data-timestamp="1696987194" data-date="Oct 10, 2023" data-time="9:19 PM" data-short="Oct '23" title="Oct 10, 2023 at 9:19 PM" itemprop="datePublished">Oct 10, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9817985" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9817985/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9817985"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9817985" rel="nofollow"> #69 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9817985" data-lb-caption-desc="Tidal · Oct 10, 2023 at 9:19 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><div style="text-align: center"><img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/ursaluna-bloodmoon.gif.m.1733184911' alt=':sv/ursaluna-bloodmoon:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/shaymin-sky.gif.m.1733184910' alt=':sv/shaymin-sky:' /> <img class='smilie' src='/dex/media/sprites/xy/garchomp.gif.m.1733184910' alt=':sv/garchomp:' /><br /><b><span style="font-size: 22px">Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, Shaymin-Sky, and Garchomp have been banned from The Card Game!</span></b>​</div><br /><br />With all receiving unanimous votes, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, Shaymin-Sky, and Garchomp will no longer be allowed in the tier.<br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/ursaluna-bloodmoon.png.m.1733184959' alt=':ursaluna-bloodmoon:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> with great longevity, nuclear damage output, and Mind's Eye allowing Normal-types to be damaged by super effective Fighting-type moves, Ursaluna-Bloodmon had very limited reliable counterplay, both in the builder and in battle, and has been deemed too problematic for the tier.<br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/shaymin-sky.png.m.1733184959' alt=':shaymin-sky:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> with fantastic Speed and Special Attack, a nuclear Seed Flare that 2HKOs even resists with an 80% chance to drop Special Defense, and Air Slash flinch cheese, Shaymin-Sky was far too constricting both in the builder and in the battle<br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/garchomp.png.m.1733184959' alt=':garchomp:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> after successfully dodging bans for the whole lifetime of the tier, Garchomp has been pushed over the edge in DLC1 after receiving Scale Shot, turning it into an incredibly powerful sweeper with very very limited counterplay, and has <s>finally</s> been banned!<br /><br />tagging <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/241023/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="241023" data-username="Kris">Kris</a> to implement</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" 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id="post-9818138"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/talpr0ne.195334/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/talpr0ne.195334/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/forums/members/talpr0ne.195334/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="195334" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img src="/forums/data/avatars/m/195/195334.jpg?1577475085" srcset="/forums/data/avatars/l/195/195334.jpg?1577475085 2x" alt="Talpr0ne" class="avatar-u195334-m" width="96" height="96" loading="lazy" itemprop="image" /> </a> </div> </div> <div class="message-userDetails"> <h4 class="message-name"><a href="/forums/members/talpr0ne.195334/" class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="195334" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span itemprop="name">Talpr0ne</span></a></h4> <div class="message-userBadges"> <div class="marquee-holder"> <div class="marquee-content"></div> </div> </div> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9818138" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-10-11T01:46:57-0400" data-timestamp="1697003217" data-date="Oct 11, 2023" data-time="1:46 AM" data-short="Oct '23" title="Oct 11, 2023 at 1:46 AM" itemprop="datePublished">Oct 11, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9818138" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9818138/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9818138"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9818138" rel="nofollow"> #70 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9818138" data-lb-caption-desc="Talpr0ne · Oct 11, 2023 at 1:46 AM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 540420" data-quote="Gimmickyasitgets" data-source="post: 9817985" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=9817985" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-9817985">Gimmickyasitgets said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Mind's Eye allowing Normal-types to be damaged by super effective Fighting-type moves </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div></blockquote>I thought Scrappy and Mind's Eye allowed Normal and Fighting moves to hit Psychic types, not just any immunity, and therefore did nothing in practice except blocking Intimidate and being Keen Eye.<br />Not that I disagree with the overall ban, since it now gets STAB on Vacuum Wave, Blood Moon has no immunities regardless and the overall type is arguably better than in standard OU.</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="3" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul class="reactionSummary"> <li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--1" data-reaction-id="1"><i 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itemprop="name">Tidal</span></a></h4> <h5 class="userTitle message-userTitle" dir="auto" itemprop="jobTitle">Formerly Rae</h5> <div class="message-userBadges"> <div class="marquee-holder"> <div class="marquee-content"><img src="/forums/media/badges/social.png.m.1" alt="is a Social Media Contributor" title="is a Social Media Contributor" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/forummod.png.m.1" alt="is a Forum Moderator" title="is a Forum Moderator" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/cc.png.m.1" alt="is a Community Contributor" title="is a Community Contributor" /></div> </div> </div> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9818141" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-10-11T01:50:59-0400" data-timestamp="1697003459" data-date="Oct 11, 2023" data-time="1:50 AM" data-short="Oct '23" title="Oct 11, 2023 at 1:50 AM" itemprop="datePublished">Oct 11, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9818141" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9818141/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9818141"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9818141" rel="nofollow"> #71 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9818141" data-lb-caption-desc="Tidal · Oct 11, 2023 at 1:50 AM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 195334" data-quote="Talpr0ne" data-source="post: 9818138" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=9818138" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-9818138">Talpr0ne said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I thought Scrappy and Mind's Eye allowed Normal and Fighting moves to hit Psychic types, not just any immunity, and therefore did nothing in practice except blocking Intimidate and being Keen Eye. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div></blockquote><br />Scrappy gives Normal- and Fighting-type moves the "ignore immunities" flag, so it allows Fighting-type moves to hit Normal-type Pokemon</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta 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data-content="post-9818155" id="js-post-9818155" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/9818155/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-9818155"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/talpr0ne.195334/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/talpr0ne.195334/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/forums/members/talpr0ne.195334/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="195334" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img src="/forums/data/avatars/m/195/195334.jpg?1577475085" srcset="/forums/data/avatars/l/195/195334.jpg?1577475085 2x" alt="Talpr0ne" 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data-short="Oct '23" title="Oct 11, 2023 at 2:10 AM" itemprop="datePublished">Oct 11, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9818155" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9818155/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9818155"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9818155" rel="nofollow"> #72 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9818155" data-lb-caption-desc="Talpr0ne · Oct 11, 2023 at 2:10 AM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 540420" data-quote="Gimmickyasitgets" data-source="post: 9818141" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=9818141" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-9818141">Gimmickyasitgets said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Scrappy gives Normal- and Fighting-type moves the "ignore immunities" flag, so it allows Fighting-type moves to hit Normal-type Pokemon </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div></blockquote>Does it also allow them to hit through Levitate and Earth Eater? That's pretty amazing either way for <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/flamigo.png.m.1733184959' alt=':flamigo:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/decidueye-hisui.png.m.1733184959' alt=':decidueye-hisui:' style='vertical-align: middle' /></div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="2" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul class="reactionSummary"> <li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--1" data-reaction-id="1"><i aria-hidden="true"></i><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" loading="lazy" class="reaction-sprite js-reaction" alt="Like" title="Like" /></span></li> </ul> <span class="u-srOnly">Reactions:</span><a class="reactionsBar-link" href="/forums/posts/9818155/reactions" data-xf-click="overlay" data-cache="false" rel="nofollow"><bdi>DosDogs</bdi> and <bdi>Siamato</bdi></a> </div> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> </div> </article> <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="PQRDG" data-content="post-9868051" id="js-post-9868051" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/9868051/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-9868051"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope 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</div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9868051" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-11-19T15:36:35-0500" data-timestamp="1700426195" data-date="Nov 19, 2023" data-time="3:36 PM" data-short="Nov '23" title="Nov 19, 2023 at 3:36 PM" itemprop="datePublished">Nov 19, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9868051" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9868051/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9868051"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9868051" rel="nofollow"> #73 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9868051" data-lb-caption-desc="PQRDG · Nov 19, 2023 at 3:36 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">A bug has been found in TCG! It appears that <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/ogerpon-cornerstone.png.m.1733184959' alt=':Ogerpon-Cornerstone:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> is causing some trouble. It's signature move appears to change to the Rock-type with this mask, even in this meta where the "Rock" type should not exist. For the time being, we would like to politely ask that players not use this Pokemon in any TCG room tours. <i><span style="font-size: 12px">(Note that the other masks work fine, as do any other form-specific moves we tested, as all other legal form-specific moves exist within the constraints of the TCG type chart... as far as we are aware.)</span></i><br /><br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="button bbCodeSpoiler-button button--longText" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span><span class="bbCodeSpoiler-button-title">Replays</span></span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"><a href="https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9thecardgame-1992847890" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9thecardgame-1992847890</a><br /><i><span style="font-size: 10px">Please ignore how bad I am at battling.</span></i><br /><a href="https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9thecardgame-1992875301" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9thecardgame-1992875301</a></div> </div> </div></div><br /><i><span style="font-size: 10px">Tagging <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/241023/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="241023" data-username="Kris">Kris</a> to bring this to your attention</span></i></div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> <div class="message-lastEdit"> Last edited: <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-11-19T15:42:58-0500" data-timestamp="1700426578" data-date="Nov 19, 2023" data-time="3:42 PM" data-short="Nov '23" title="Nov 19, 2023 at 3:42 PM" itemprop="dateModified">Nov 19, 2023</time> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" 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class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-9894915"></span> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/tidal.540420/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/tidal.540420/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/forums/members/tidal.540420/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="540420" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img src="/forums/data/avatars/m/540/540420.jpg?1734026086" srcset="/forums/data/avatars/l/540/540420.jpg?1734026086 2x" alt="Tidal" class="avatar-u540420-m" width="96" height="96" loading="lazy" itemprop="image" /> </a> </div> </div> <div class="message-userDetails"> <h4 class="message-name"><a href="/forums/members/tidal.540420/" class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="540420" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span class="username--staff username--moderator" itemprop="name">Tidal</span></a></h4> <h5 class="userTitle message-userTitle" dir="auto" itemprop="jobTitle">Formerly Rae</h5> <div class="message-userBadges"> <div class="marquee-holder"> <div class="marquee-content"><img src="/forums/media/badges/social.png.m.1" alt="is a Social Media Contributor" title="is a Social Media Contributor" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/forummod.png.m.1" alt="is a Forum Moderator" title="is a Forum Moderator" /><img src="/forums/media/badges/cc.png.m.1" alt="is a Community Contributor" title="is a Community Contributor" /></div> </div> </div> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9894915" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-12-16T00:24:56-0500" data-timestamp="1702704296" data-date="Dec 16, 2023" data-time="12:24 AM" data-short="Dec '23" title="Dec 16, 2023 at 12:24 AM" itemprop="datePublished">Dec 16, 2023</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9894915" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9894915/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9894915"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9894915" rel="nofollow"> #74 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9894915" data-lb-caption-desc="Tidal · Dec 16, 2023 at 12:24 AM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">Happy DLC 2! With DLC2 now fullly playable on Showdown, it's time to announce our <b>Day 1 Bans!</b><br /><br /><img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/lugia.png.m.1733184959' alt=':lugia:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/ho-oh.png.m.1733184959' alt=':ho-oh:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/latias.png.m.1733184959' alt=':latias:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/latios.png.m.1733184959' alt=':latios:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/deoxys-attack.png.m.1733184959' alt=':deoxys-attack:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/deoxys.png.m.1733184959' alt=':deoxys:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/reshiram.png.m.1733184959' alt=':reshiram:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/zekrom.png.m.1733184959' alt=':zekrom:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/kyurem.png.m.1733184959' alt=':kyurem:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/kyurem-black.png.m.1733184959' alt=':kyurem-black:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/kyurem-white.png.m.1733184959' alt=':kyurem-white:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/solgaleo.png.m.1733184959' alt=':solgaleo:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/lunala.png.m.1733184959' alt=':lunala:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/necrozma-dusk-mane.png.m.1733184959' alt=':necrozma-dusk-mane:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <img class='smilie' src='/forums/media/minisprites/necrozma-dawn-wings.png.m.1733184959' alt=':necrozma-dawn-wings:' style='vertical-align: middle' /> <br /><br /><b>Lugia, Ho-Oh, Latias, Latios, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Normal, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem, Kyurem-Black, Kyurem-White, Solgaleo, Lunala, Necrozma-DM, Necrozma-DW, and Gouging Fire are all banned from The Card Game!</b><br /><br />We're aware of some other stuff on people's radars, and rest assured, we've got our eyes on them all! Except another slate once some new games have been played!<br /><br /><span style="font-size: 10px">heyyyyyy <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/241023/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="241023" data-username="Kris">Kris</a></span></div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="8" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul class="reactionSummary"> <li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--1" data-reaction-id="1"><i aria-hidden="true"></i><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" loading="lazy" class="reaction-sprite js-reaction" alt="Like" title="Like" 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" dir="auto" data-user-id="533358" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span itemprop="name">PQRDG</span></a></h4> <div class="message-userBadges"> <div class="marquee-holder"> <div class="marquee-content"></div> </div> </div> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9978075" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2024-02-12T17:41:40-0500" data-timestamp="1707777700" data-date="Feb 12, 2024" data-time="5:41 PM" data-short="Feb 12" title="Feb 12, 2024 at 5:41 PM" itemprop="datePublished">Feb 12, 2024</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9978075" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/forums/posts/9978075/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-share-alt "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#share-alt"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li class="u-hidden js-embedCopy"> <a href="javascript:" data-xf-init="copy-to-clipboard" data-copy-text="<div class="js-xf-embed" data-url="https://www.smogon.com/forums" data-content="post-9978075"></div><script defer src="https://www.smogon.com/forums/js/xf/external_embed.js?_v=b16d9dfb"></script>" data-success="Embed code HTML copied to clipboard." class=""> <i class="fa--xf far fa-code "><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" role="img" aria-hidden="true" ><use href="/forums/data/local/icons/regular.svg?v=1734622338#code"></use></svg></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/forums/threads/the-card-game-new-bans-at-post-77.3716838/post-9978075" rel="nofollow"> #75 </a> </li> </ul> </header> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-9978075" data-lb-caption-desc="PQRDG · Feb 12, 2024 at 5:41 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 664419" data-quote="Dansahubeb" data-source="post: 9978007" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=9978007" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-9978007">Dansahubeb said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Chien-Pao shines as a versatile asset in competitive play, offering robust options against Dark and Steel types with Sacred Sword, and Psychic Fangs to counter the prevalent Fighting threats. Its necessity for Heavy-Duty Boots hardly dampens its offensive prowess, seamlessly integrating with key Pokémon to exert formidable pressure. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div></blockquote>This paragraph is so well-written I'm tempted to think its source is ChatGPT. It's a shame though; Chien Pao is banned, and has been since before the DLCs dropped. See its ban post <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-card-game-dlc-2-bans-at-post-74.3716838/post-9611609" class="link link--internal">here</a>.<br /><br /><span style="font-size: 12px">Edit: after re-reading the ban post, it does look like this post may have taken it and put it through a thesaurus, which is somewhat amusing.<br />Like, seriously, read these two posts side by side:</span><br /> <blockquote data-attributes="member: 540420" data-quote="Gimmicky" data-source="post: 9611609" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=9611609" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-9611609">Gimmicky said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> [...] Crucially, Sacred Sword allows for a strong option against opposing Dark and Steel types, while Psychic Fangs is a powerful coverage option to hit the prevalent Fighting types that threaten you. Chien-Pao is forced to run Heavy-Duty Boots on most teams, but still sports an excellent offensive pressure and natural synergy with key offensive Pokemon that allows it to easily make its way onto the field and force in it's few checks-- which are easy to wear down due to having to check other strong physical threats. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div></blockquote></div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> <div class="message-lastEdit"> Last edited: <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2024-02-13T15:05:58-0500" data-timestamp="1707854758" data-date="Feb 13, 2024" data-time="3:05 PM" data-short="Feb 13" title="Feb 13, 2024 at 3:05 PM" itemprop="dateModified">Feb 13, 2024</time> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta 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